Saint David’s Hall – Q&A

Is the Council selling SDH?

The Council is not selling SDH. Under these proposals, we would enter a long-term property lease with Academy Music Group (AMG), where AMG would take responsibility for maintaining and upgrading the building and would operate the National Concert Hall. AMG has a good track record of looking after important local heritage buildings across the UK.

What about the Classical music programme and use of the Hall by community groups?

AMG’s proposal includes a clear vision and commitment to maintain, develop and enhance the classical programme at St David’s Hall. Their ambition is to further enhance the reputation of St David’s Hall as one of the best classical music venues in the UK. They have set aside 60 days during the peak event period (September to May) to accommodate the classical programme which currently consists of 58 days during the peak period, with additional dates in the calendar year for other key classical and community events. The offer of 60 priority slots at peak time (September – May) would enable the main programme to be confirmed well in advance each year including the events delivered by the BBC National Orchestra of Wales and visiting orchestras and soloists through the Classical Concert series, the Cardiff Philharmonic Orchestra, Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama and Cardiff University. An additional 25 days will also be set aside during off-peak months (June-August) for other key classical and community events, including BBC Cardiff Singer of the World, the Welsh Proms, and national and local youth ensembles. Both Cardiff Singer of the World and The Proms currently take place out of peak period so this is not a change to their programming. This means a minimum of 85 days will be available for the classical programme, classical-related community events, and the work of the Arts Active Trust. Currently this programme utilises up to 87 days. AMG has committed to do all of this without subsidy from the Council including taking the commercial risk on the International Concert series.  They will use their extensive marketing capability to promote the events to try to attract bigger audiences.

Isn’t 85 days considerably less than what is provided now?

The classical programme will not be limited to 85 days. The commitment for 60 days is to set aside priority slots in the peak period event calendar (September - May) for classical events, to ensure the classical programme consistently receives adequate priority. An additional 25 ‘off peak’ days from June - August will also be set aside, to guarantee time for other events including Cardiff Singer of the World and the Welsh Proms. At present the classical programme, classical-related community events, and the work of the Arts Active Trust, utilises up to 87 days.  The remaining 30 or so non-classical community events not covered by these guaranteed slots will still be able to use St David’s Hall but will have less certainty over their dates up to 3 months in advance. Also, if the Hall is required to open specifically for these events, i.e. when it would otherwise have been closed, a community rate will be charged to cover the cost of opening up and operating the building for the event. Most events are already subject to charge, however the Council is exploring establishing a small fund for community events to bid for on an exceptions basis, where they are not able to pay the costs of opening up the building.

The proposals mention replacing seating within the stalls area with a retractable seats system. Why do this, and what impact will it have on the Hall’s famed acoustics?

AMG wish to create a standing area for rock/pop-based acts. Their plan is to use palleted removable seating, rather than retractable seating, that can be completely removed and easily restored as required. This will give the Hall far greater flexibility. Sandy Brown, the acoustic engineers involved in designing the building, have been engaged to advise on these proposals and have confirmed that the proposed alterations will have no noticeable impact on acoustic quality.

In July 2021 acoustic consultants from Sandy Brown visited the hall and carried out detailed acoustic tests over two days to quantify the hall’s key acoustic properties. The hall’s natural acoustic qualities were benchmarked in detail across all the seating terraces.

The Sandy Brown team also built a detailed 3D acoustic computer model of the hall using specialist acoustic software and this was used to assess the AMG proposals. The modelling indicated that changes in the hall’s natural acoustic properties as a result of the proposals were expected to be minimal and generally below the thresholds of change required for it to be noticeable. Sandy Brown have given recommendations to be followed if the AMG proposals are implemented, and their benchmark test results and computer model are available to assist in reviewing any design proposals if necessary.

The full Sandy Brown acoustic report is available to view as part of the Cabinet Papers, here: https://cardiff.moderngov.co.uk/documents/s65583/Cabinet%2015%20Dec%202022%20SDH%20Addendum.pdf?LLL=0

Why can’t the Council continue to run the venue itself?

The Hall currently costs the Council around £1m per annum to operate and this is becoming increasingly difficult to sustain in the new age of austerity facing public services. Cardiff Council is forecasting a budget gap of £23.5m in the forthcoming financial year alone and this follows a reduction of more than £250m in the council’s budget over the past ten years.

The £23.5m budget gap for next year would grow significantly if the Council was faced with financing the upgrade of the building. A significant amount is estimated to address the immediate issues, and this would need to be followed by a further programme of refurbishment and maintenance to modernise the building to the standards now expected by audiences and performers.

In contrast, the AMG proposal does not require any ongoing subsidy, and they have committed to taking full responsibility for the repair and maintenance and modernisation of the building. Their offer will also bring a varied programme of live music and entertainment to Cardiff providing further music infrastructure to our city with a significant number of rock/pop events each year from established and rising artists.

So has the Council failed to maintain the building properly over the years?

The Council has invested regularly in maintenance and repair of SDH. However, given that the venue does not generate a financial surplus and instead has required a subsidy from the Council year on year, the Council has not had the necessary funds to invest at the level required to keep fully on top of the maintenance issues as the building has aged.    

What will happen with staff?

Under the proposal, all Council staff at SDH will TUPE across to AMG on the same terms and conditions they have with the Council.

What will you do about the Arts Active Charity which forms part of SDH?

The staff involved with Arts Active will remain employed by the Council. AMG has committed to continue to work with Arts Active who will continue to source funding from external sources to provide their wrap-around support for the classical programme and community events.

I’ve read reports that this process seems rushed – is it?

The council has been exploring alternatives for the running of St David’s Hall since 2014 and in 2016 it undertook a full competitive dialogue public procurement process. This process was unsuccessful, with no organisations coming forward willing to take on responsibility for maintaining the building, and the associated costs.

As the Hall requires an annual subsidy from the Council which often reaches £1million a year, its future is re-considered annually as part of the budget setting process.

Now Cabinet has approved the AMG offer in principle there are a number of further steps that will be taken before any lease is agreed.

Firstly, the Council will start to negotiate a draft contract setting out all of the finer details relating to the AMG offer. The public will be consulted as part of the annual budget consultation process. The Council will then issue a Voluntary Ex-Ante Transparency (VEAT) Notice.

A VEAT Notice is published to provide notice of intent. When the VEAT notice is published it will include full details of the draft contract negotiated with AMG, which the public will be able to see.

Following the completion of these steps, the final decision on whether to approve the offer will return to Cabinet. This is expected to happen in March 2023.

How long will the classical and community programmes be protected for if a deal is agreed with AMG?

The commitments to protect these programmes will be conditions of the lease and will last for the full length of the lease.

Have Welsh Government been approached for possible Arts Council of Wales financial assistance? If not why not? They helped Theatr Clwyd? 

There have been discussions with ACW regarding a capital contribution for many years. It’s important to acknowledge that Arts Council of Wales have had to manage significant reductions in their own budget in recent years.

ACW capital funding was a pot of £20m, for the whole of Wales, which ran from 2012-2017. Since then, applications have only been for smaller adaptations that would help towards accessibility and environmental impact and require match-funding. Any potential funding discussed before 2017 would have been on a match-funding basis and would not have been sufficient to enable the significant repairs and upgrades required to the Hall

In addition, with the exception of a small annual ACW National Lottery fund towards the international concert series and support during Covid-19, no revenue support has been provided by ACW since 2014, and the Council currently pays to keep St David’s Hall open.

Has corporate sponsorship been sought? If not, why not?

Yes. The Council has explored corporate sponsorship for various buildings in the past including St David’s Hall. The market for sponsorship/naming rights in Cardiff is not strong – this can be evidenced by the deals achieved by other venues in the city that offer far greater commercial exposure. The potential for sponsorship/naming rights increases where the venue forms part of a wider UK network, such as that being offered by AMG.

Has alternative funding been sought – if not, why not?

Yes. Informed by the Council’s discussions with ACW and Welsh Government which indicated no public funds were available to support the building, the Council ran an extensive competitive dialogue procurement process in 2016. This process concluded unsuccessfully with no organisations coming forward willing to take on responsibility for maintaining the building, and the associated costs.

Since the discussions outlined in the previous two questions, and the 2016 procurement exercise, the condition of the Hall will have deteriorated further, accelerated by a period of closure during Covid, and the economic outlook has worsened significantly, making the proposition for alternative funding even worse.

Following the Cabinet decision on December 15^th to approve the offer in principle, the next stage of the process will see a VEAT notice published – a public notice of intent. This will include full details of the draft contract negotiated with AMG. The public will be consulted as part of the Budget Consultation through December and January and Cabinet will then take a final decision, after due consideration, next year. This is expected to happen in March 2023.

Repair of the roof only costs £2.1m according to confidential documents being shared on social media. Surely you can afford that?

A small section of the conditions survey is being quoted and is giving a misleading picture of the scale of works required. Other essential works, such as replacing or upgrading mechanical and electrical installations means the likely maintenance costs needed, in the short term alone, is considerably higher.

Has the deal already been done with AMG?

No. AMG have made an offer and now that Cabinet have approved it in principle there are a number of further steps that will be taken before any lease is agreed.

Firstly, the Council will start to negotiate a draft contract setting out all of the finer details relating to the AMG offer. The public will be consulted as part of the annual budget consultation process. The Council will then issue a Voluntary Ex-Ante Transparency (VEAT) Notice (as explained above).

An online petition claims that the council state the maintenance backlog for St David’s Hall stands at £55 million (which is the price for the full building makeover and refit inc. a restaurant) – but the petitioner possesses a Condition and Costings report that states only £2.1 million is required to maintain the hall’s roof. Has a meeting between council and with St David’s Hall management occurred to discuss what the actual figure is?

St David’s Hall management are fully aware of the findings of the condition survey.

A small section of the conditions survey is being quoted selectively and is giving a misleading picture of the scale of works required. Other essential works, such as replacing or upgrading mechanical and electrical installations means the likely maintenance costs needed, in the short term alone, is considerably higher.

Almost 20,000 people have signed a petition asking Cardiff Council to reassess its position with St David’s Hall and this bid, will this petition be discussed and considered?

It's important to recognise that the petition has gathered names based on what the council believes are misleading statements. We have seen people petition on the basis that the council is selling off the Hall, that there will no longer be classical music at the hall, that the acoustics will be ruined. These are just a few of the statements - which we consider to be inaccurate - posted on social media by people urging others to sign the petition.

Details about the proposal are being released which we hope will alleviate most of the concerns and fears that have been exacerbated by these sort of statements, but the council will certainly look at the petition when it is received and consider it along with all other evidence.

Reports have been made that AMG staff have undertaken surveys of the hall before the deal has been accepted. Could we ask what you know of this please?

AMG staff and consultants have been allowed access to the Hall to enable them to develop their proposal for the building. The building surveys undertaken have been commissioned by the Council.

The petitioner claims that AMG have no interest in cultural and classical output within the Hall, as well as discussing issues surrounding community link-ups with the RWCMD, local schools and colleges – has any of this been made apparent in their bid to secure its takeover?

Details of the proposal have been released which show this is not the case.

Does the AMG bid explicitly say that they are looking to remove the seating out of the Hall and do a brand new structural refit?

AMG wish to create a standing area in the lower stalls area for rock/pop based acts. Their plan is to use palleted removable seating, rather than retractable seating, that can be completely removed and easily restored as required. This will give the Hall far greater flexibility. Sandy Brown, the acoustic engineers involved in designing the building, have been engaged to advise on these proposals and have confirmed that the proposed alterations will have no noticeable impact on acoustic quality.

In July 2021 acoustic consultants from Sandy Brown visited the hall and carried out detailed acoustic tests over two days to quantify the hall’s key acoustic properties. The hall’s natural acoustic qualities were benchmarked in detail across all the seating terraces.

The Sandy Brown team also built a detailed 3D acoustic computer model of the hall using specialist acoustic software and this was used to assess the AMG proposals. The modelling indicated that changes in the hall’s natural acoustic properties as a result of the proposals were expected to be minimal and generally below the thresholds of change required for it to be noticeable. Sandy Brown have given recommendations to be followed if the AMG proposals are implemented, and their benchmark test results and computer model are available to assist in reviewing any design proposals if necessary.

The full Sandy Brown acoustic report is available to view as part of the Cabinet Papers, here: https://cardiff.moderngov.co.uk/documents/s65583/Cabinet%2015%20Dec%202022%20SDH%20Addendum.pdf?LLL=0